Thursday, August 23, 2007

Confidential to President_Friedman

I noticed the effort. Thanks for trying again, even though I'm all but forgotten over there. And by the way, your question about Ron Paul was great. I, too, am baffled by the amount of hostility establishment conservatives direct at Ron Paul. The only reason I can think of for the viciousness Paul gets from such folks is that what Paul says cuts a little too closely to the bone regarding conservative principles and the fact that many modern establishment conservatives really don't hold to such principles. That, and the fact that he could very well be an electoral spoiler for the GOP this election cycle. But, who knows? The Greeks fed Socrates the hemlock because they thought he was radicalizing the youth. Maybe this very same impulse is at work with regard to establishment conservatives and Ron Paul.


Don_cos said...


I think that most of the dislike that is expressed toward Ron Paul is actually because of his internet supporters. They are some of the looniest right wingers on the net.

Personnaly I like some of what Ron Paul stands for, but I can't stand the trolls that support him.

And Huck, you have not been forgotten over there. There are still many of us who wonder why you were banned. However most of us have come to the conclusionn that we aren't likely to find out.

President Friedman said...

Thx Huck. It's kind of sad seeing D-Vega doing all the heavy lifting for your team over there. He's probably getting tired.

Regarding Ron Paul, I understand that a lot of conservatives find his foreign policy ideas unteneble (I do too). They also find his coments on Blowback downright offensive. What I don't understand is why he receives nothing but ridicule while a pro-choicer like Rudy gets sent to the front of the pack. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Doncos is probably correct, Paul's supporters likey have a lot to do with it. I just think it's sad becuase I doubt many of those supporters know much about Ron Paul other than he is anti-war.

Huck said...

Thanks for continuing to visit my blog, don_cos and President_Friedman. As we gear up for the new semester, I'll probably have fewer entries; but I'll at least try to post something on a regular basis, even if it's a short item or a simple link to a story I found iteresting. I'm also putting the finishing touches on a book, so that's taking my time, too. But, please do continue to visit. I wish you had blogs that I could visit, too. Have either of you thought to start one?

don_cos: That's a good point about Ron Paul's supporters. They do tend to be hyper-aggressive and out there sometimes. But I still don't understand how that translates to the disdain directed at the man himself. I'm sure Ron Paul takes his support from wherever he can get it, but whatever happened to judging a candidate because of his or her own ideas and not because of the nature of some of the people who follow him? So much of the outrage expressed is directed at Ron Paul himself (and even his ideas) as being as loony as some of his supporters. I just don't get it.

don_cos, you also wrote: "And Huck, you have not been forgotten over there. There are still many of us who wonder why you were banned. However most of us have come to the conclusionn that we aren't likely to find out." First, I know that some folks at RWN still wonder about what happened to me, especially you and P_F and a couple of others; but doesn't the conclusion you arrived at bother you? Doesn't it affect how you think of the type of person Hawkins is? Or at least how intellectually honest or forthright he is? I can't help but scoff, now, everytime a commenter at RWN claims how tolerant Hawkins and RWN is of dissent compared to other liberal blogs. I've also wondered how much of a chilling effect my banning and Hawkins' silence about it has had on how others (especially those who knew me) express "dissent" at RWN. I have noticed that fewer and fewer liberal voices of dissent are present at RWN. And folks like rmiller and D-Vega, who seem to try to represent an alternative point of view, are very careful and very moderate in what they say and how they say it. Maybe it's just my biased read of things at RWN, but it seems to me that, when it's not about cheap shots at liberal Democrats, it is becoming more of an echo chamber of the points of view Hawkins espouses. I still read RWN daily, but I'm finding myself less engaged with the content of his postings as I used to be, and even more disengaged from the content of the comment threads, which I think used to be much more vigorous and full of really thoughtful commentary.

President Friedman said...

Truth is, RWN has never been steeped in diverse opinion. It has always consisted of a majority of strong conservatives, and a few liberal and libertarian dissenters. Increasingly over the last few years, dissetners are shouted down. A few who are willing to take the abuse and not resort to ad hominems in kind, have stuck around to provide a little bit of ideological counterweight... but it is not a place I got to seek widespread diversity of opinion. Much like C_T's blog, it is a place I go to try and better understand social conservatives.

That said, there are a handful of great minds who post on that site, and though rational debates are rare, when they do happen they are a lot of fun.

Also Huck, I've thought about starting my own blog a few times, but if I invested the time to do it, I'd have to give up the time I spend reading and commenting on other blogs (which I already probably spend too much time doing).

Don_cos said...


Lets us know when Your book gets published. I’ll read it (But I expect an autograph). :-}

No I don’t have a blog, but I have considered it. I am just not sure I could pick up another task at this time. I am in the process of retiring from the Navy. And like all government processes, they make it as complicated as possible. Plus with four kids, college (especially at my age), and finding a new career. Maybe later, but who knows?

As to Ron Paul. I don’t support him because I do not agree with many of his positions. Some are outstanding, but others are outrageous. My point was that mush of the flaming he receives on the blogs is not just because of his positions but are in reaction to the outlandish comments of his supporters. Most conservative I know have in fact checked him out and simply do not believe he is the right guy. But you are correct in that much of the supporter backlash is misdirected. But much of that may also be explained by people trying to bate his pet moonbats (yes, moonbats also come in a right wing model).

I can’t explain your banning. We’ve discussed that before. However I will add that I have become bored with the Trolls over there. Some like D and Rmiller are decent guys who are worth reading and considering, but others like Fiza, Grounghog, Whitytighty, etc tend to ruin the comments sections. So I have no problem with deleting their comments. And compared to most big left wing blogs, Hawkins is still very tolerant. If those large mainstream left wing blogs operated like you do, then I would have no argument here.

And I have to admit that after years of hearing the same lame comments and arguments from the trolls there, I have degenerated into mostly snide comments myself.

If I ever do start a blog I will let you know.

Don_cos said...

That should read "their comments being delted" not deleting their comments. D'oh!

D-Vega said...

"Thx Huck. It's kind of sad seeing D-Vega doing all the heavy lifting for your team over there. He's probably getting tired."

I won't give up. I am too stubborn.

Keep it real & liberal, Huck.

Huck said...

Good to see you here, D-Vega. Thanks for stopping by. I'm glad you're still fighting the good fight at RWN.

Christopher Taylor said...

Actually, the hostility is less about Ron Paul himself (although he says some goofy things) and more about how he is surrounded by lunatics and fringe freaks without any attempt to dissuade or convince them otherwise. He keeps meeting with these guys making noises like he's interested in and neutral to thier positions, if not leaning toward them.

Combine that with the frothing rabid extreme worship that some Ron Paul supporters show when they vomit their comments all over the internet and pack polls online, and you get a pretty sour taste.