tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post5679982876090783622..comments2023-10-26T04:53:21.986-05:00Comments on <a href="http://huckupchuck.blogspot.com">The Huck Upchuck</a>: Football as Dogfighting: Are the NFL and We Football Fans Culpable for Michael Vick?Huckhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15878450464298055466noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-13467361739960407262009-11-18T11:10:47.982-06:002009-11-18T11:10:47.982-06:00"Football, Mixed Martial Arts, and motorsport..."Football, Mixed Martial Arts, and motorsports. These are the last true vestiges of sport we have in our society."<br /><br />I'd add rodeo events, perhaps my favorite sports to watch, to this list.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-40089069734179666442009-11-18T00:53:58.465-06:002009-11-18T00:53:58.465-06:00Football, Mixed Martial Arts, and motorsports.
Th...Football, Mixed Martial Arts, and motorsports.<br /><br />These are the last true vestiges of sport we have in our society. The brutality, the danger, these temper men in to being more than men. Those of us who love these sports or take part in them know the sobering price of admission. The physical cost is tremendous, and the very real possibility that one day you may die for your sport.<br /><br />The sacrifice is part of it. Personally I believe that boxing and football probably generate more long term brain damage than MMA and motorsports however, MMA and motorsports can induce crippling injuries and in the case of motorsports you<b> may die on the track.</b><br /><br />The dangerous sports forge heroes and role models. We also tend to hold our athletes to a higher moral standard. Auto-racing in particular is guilty of this. We do not take moral transgressions lightly. <br /><br />Nick Hogan is blacklisted, he will never have a career after that accident. The league he competed in has deleted all references of him, erased his past accomplishments, and barred him from ever stepping foot near one of their events. Think about that and how we're the most commercialized sport out there. Its more about the morality of the people who compete and organize a sport than the level of endorsements.Andrewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17971986598583086801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-20883000775603258152009-11-16T14:09:31.543-06:002009-11-16T14:09:31.543-06:00"...dogs also have a choice to fight."
..."...dogs also have a choice to fight."<br /><br />Yes, but it is still objectively and qualitatively different. Dogs have no choice about being put in the situation where they have to make the decision whether to fight or not, and therein lies the difference. You could perhaps make the argument that some minors are forced to play football in a manner that is remotely equatable to what happens in animal bloodsports, but once they reach the age of majority, I don't think any such argument can be made.<br /><br /><br />"I think if I were socialized to dogfighting in the same way, I'd probably not be so offended by Michael Vick's transgression."<br /><br />Absolutely, which brings up an issue that I find much more interesting, which is that our modern concept of "animal rights" is rooted much more in touchy-feely social conventions than any kind of logical ethical framework. A society that would put people in jail for cockfighing while allowing the conditions that exist in most commercial poultry farms is a society with a fairly whacked out basis for establishing animal rights. <br /><br />A friend of mine likes to bring up this fairly illustrating (if a little hardcore) question: Forced with the choice between punching your spouse in the face or killing your family pet with your own hands, which would you choose?<br /><br />I submit that as much as I "love" our dogs, the dignified treatment of my family is immeasurably more important to me than the life of any animal. And that thought process pretty much drives the rest of my thoughts on animal rights. While I detest the mindset of a person who would engage in dogfighting, I also have a hard time putting them in prison for it, as I don't acknowledge the value of a canine's life and liberty to be anywhere near the same plane as a human's.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-23378119822725097502009-11-16T13:21:03.155-06:002009-11-16T13:21:03.155-06:00Hi, Eric - Yes, I'm sure some folks (I'm o...Hi, Eric - Yes, I'm sure some folks (I'm one of them) that ponder the violence of football in all its dimenstions, but I still think that most (and I was one of them until I read this article) that didn't really think consciously of the parallels between dogfighting and football in the same way. What I didn't mention in my posting, but what is in the article, is that dogs also have a choice to fight. Some dogs, even in spite of their training, after experiencing an injury, refuse to engage the fight. There is even a name for such dogs -- a "cur"; and the dog is abandoned. Which leads me to the question of choice. Yes, football players have choice -- they can always walk away. But it's not that easy when the entire culture conspires against this in some way.<br /><br />And, yes, I do recall (and took thrill in delivering), those blood-curdling hits. And I still have the same reaction when watching such hits. Yes, I acknowledge that there is something primitively appealing in that. And I'm sure that my years of socialization to the sport will have me continuing to cheer such hits. I think if I were socialized to dogfighting in the same way, I'd probably not be so offended by Michael Vick's transgression. It's just striking what we put up with for sports like football or boxing, yet what we cringe at in other instances.Huckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15878450464298055466noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-44698623509091469012009-11-16T11:34:02.101-06:002009-11-16T11:34:02.101-06:00I'd also note that my feelings about Pro footb...I'd also note that my feelings about Pro football are one of the glaring contraditions in my uber free market approach to life. I rarely watch pro football because I can't stand the personalities of the players and the commercialization of the atmosphere. I much prefer to watch the college kids who are playing for love of the sport and for promise of future opportunity, as opposed to the giant egos who play for money on Sundays.<br /><br />Plus, IMHO, footbal without marching bands just ain't football.Ericnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3704399.post-63296609305022774742009-11-16T11:13:58.401-06:002009-11-16T11:13:58.401-06:00"...what bothers me is that the NFL and its f..."...what bothers me is that the NFL and its fans could pretend such outrage and shock at Michael Vick for his dogfighting transgression, and not even reflect upon even the slightest parallels between the "sport" of professional football and the "sport" of dogfighting..."<br /><br />Based on the number of NFL fans with whom I've had this exact conversation, I think you are wrong that they don't reflect on it. I think most do, and after reflection they decide, as you point out, that the 'free choice' component provides significant rationalization for being a football fan. Perhaps your argument is that this isn't a good enough rationalization, but I don't think it's fair to say fans don't reflect on the parallels. <br /><br />I also think, as someone who played high school football, that you'd be aware of the intense physical and emotional thrill that comes from delivering one of those hits that makes your opponent go cross eyed for a complete set of downs. The opportunity to deliver those kinds of blows in a controlled environment is a large part of what draws young men to play the game in the first place, before the allure of fame and money are ever a real possibility. It is one of the last societal vestiges of a more primitive time when sheer physicality determined whether you lived or died, and I think that as such, it taps into something that is both dangerous and valuable at the same time. As we become an increasingly emasculated society, I believe this release is psychologically important to men, whose evolutionary biology isn't quite as modern as the times we live in.Ericnoreply@blogger.com